This was a part of an ongoing conversation....
My Comment:
Humility is not drawn from our native resources. Do you believe that there are unregenerate people who are willing to accept the humbling terms of the gospel, apart from grace? Is Christ sufficient to save you, that is, provide everything you need to be saved, including a new heart to believe? Or is Christ only necessary? That is providing only the opportunity to be saved?--------------------
Visitor's Response
Yes I believe there are unregenerated people who are willing to humble themselves and believe the gospel. In fact this is how all people are saved. Grace is what we receive by believing.
However, everyone needs God's grace just to be alive. But that is not to be confused with saving grace.
As far as the new heart, I believe it is something we receive when we become saved or regenerated. I don't believe we get a new heart and then believe or at least I can't find it in the Bible. If you can show it, I'd reconsider my position.--------------------
My Response:
Hi ____,
Thanks for your post. It seems to me that the Bible is filled with references to the need for the Spirit working in hearts prior to faith.
The first one that comes to mind is where Jesus Himself speaks about this very plainly in John chapter 6:63,65 & 37. He said, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all" (v 63) ...And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (v 65) & ... All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.(v37)
These declarations made by Jesus were all spoken in the context of a conversation with some unbelieving Jews about faith in Christ. Jesus here speaks in syllogistic terms. Looking at the Text in question closer Jesus is declaring that no one can believe in Him unless God grants it, and all to whom God grants it will believe...and this by the Spirit who ALONE gives life - the flesh counting for nothing. Nothing here does not mean a little something. What does Jesus mean here by "the flesh"??? It is set in contrast to the Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So the flesh refers to the fallen, carnal, unregenerate man who cannot come to faith in Christ except the Spirit quicken him.
These statements have a universal positive (all) and a universal negative (no one). ALL that the Father gives to Christ will come... and NO ONE can come UNLESS the Father grants it. It leaves no room for a synergistic view of regeneration. The Spirit quickens (or regenerates) but the flesh (the unregenerate nature) counts for nothing. Jesus says, no one can believe in Him unless God grants it. Unless quickened, we remain in the flesh and cannot believe the gospel.
I frankly can find no evidence in the Scripture anywhere which shows the contrary, that a person can believe the gospel apart from grace. Faith is never presented as product of our unregenerated human nature. The Text above says the flesh is "no help at all" and the context of the verse is clearly talking about faith.
I would also encourage you to remember verses like "no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit" ( 1 Cor 12:3) & you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." (Rom 8:15)
1 Cor 2:12, 14 is also pretty plain. It says,"no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, THAT WE MIGHT UNDERSTAND the things freely given us by God...The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
Only those who have the Spirit can actually understand and see the truth, beauty and excellency of Christ. The natural man cannot understand the gospel until they have received the Spirit, according to this passage.
Jesus echos Ezekiel in John 3 when he says, "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".. He is referencing Ezekiel who says, "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules."
Notice that the Spirit changing their heart and putting His Spirit into them is the direct cause of their obedience to God. Jesus reflecting on this passage in John 3 refers to it as being born again. No one comes to Christ while their heart is still stone, do they? The Spirit makes their heart of stone into a heart of flesh that they may have the humility to follow Christ.
Another passage that quickly comes to mind is 1 Thess 1:4, 5 "For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction."
I.e. We can speak till we are blue in the face but unless the Spirit germinates the seed of the gospel it will remain dormant in the fallow ground of our heart. For the gospel to take root the Spirit must come to plow up the fallow ground. We are naturally blind and deaf and only the Spirit can open our eyes and ears. Here are a couple more..."...but God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)." Ephesians 2: 1-5
It was while we were still dead (unregenerate) that the Spirit quickened us by grace. The Spirit's quickens us WHEN we are unregenerate. Likewise,
"Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God" 1 John 5:1
The Greek makes clear that this is spoken of in the past tense with continuing action. Belief here is the result of being born again. Several other passages in 1 John likewise show actions being the result of being born again. When one takes into account that John says in 1 John 3:9a that “everyone who has been begotten by God does not do sin, because his seed abides in him” and then in 1 John 3:9b that “he is not able to sin, because he has been begotten [the word in 5:1] by God,” we definitely find a cause and effect relationship between God’s regenerating activity as the cause and the Christian’s not sinning as one effect of that regenerating activity. For a more in depth exposition of this Text click here. .
There are many more... but I think this should more the suffice to prove, beyond question, that regeneration precedes faith.
Solus Christus