(60 Questions) Oneness Refutation // Is the word trinity in the Bible? No. // >>> Nope, neither is the word “bible” oops. Guess we can't use that word either. // Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No. // >>> Yup, by the language used to describe all three (Father, Son and Spirit). The language of using personal pronouns (us, you, yourself, me, I) denotes personhood. Matthew 3:16-17 NASB After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, [17] and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." // Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes. // >>> Trinitarians believe this and affirm this. // Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity. // >>> Nowhere in that passage is roles designated, this is eisegesis. There arent three offices, or roles... Matthew 28:19 NASB Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, In the name of designates (personhood) not offices. When you say I am here on behalf of John, does that mean roles, or does it involve personhood? // Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-1 John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, “These three are one.” Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19. Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16. // >>> Amazing! So you recognize that 1 John 5:7 denotes personhood and three unique persons however you pin that against the singular personal pronouns in the OT. We affirm singular personal pronouns, and if you knew this you wouldn't be affirming such silly claims. // Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9. Then why did Jesus say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:39)?Because Jesus is the express image of God’s person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for person in this verse literally means “substance.” // >>> We believe there is only one Father...Jesus was saying that he was revealing [or exegeting] the Father...he wasnt saying “I am the Father” which he never once says in all of scripture. The entire argument is refuted by John 1:18 John 1:18 NASB No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. If no one has "seen God at any time" your argument falls apart. The reference here is to the Father not being seen, yet the Son reveals the Father. // Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No. // >>> We don't either, there are three. // Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3. // >>> Sheesh, nowhere does it say that the Godhead is revealed in one person... 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 NASB And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, [4] in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. ^^^ Nothing in here about one person revealing the Godhead. Colossians 1:19 NASB For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, ^^^ How can the Father have pleasure for the fullness to dwell in "him" if he is the Father. The Father (distinct person) has pleasure that the fullness was able to dwell in The Son. The fullness is in reference to his deity and nature not to him "being in essence" the Father. // Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22. // >>> The non-elect, not the elect. The pronouns that you miss in this passage are incredible: “O Father…YOU have hidden”; “Father…this was well pleasing in YOUR sight”…“All things have been handed over to ME by MY FATHER”; “no one knows who the son is except the Father” and “who the son is except the Father”...Jesus is explictly saying HE IS NOT THE Father! Luke 10:21-22 NASB At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. [22] All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." // Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10. // >>> The Father is God Almighty, the Ancient of Days, the one whom Jesus is seated next to on the throne interceding for us. Daniel 7:13-14 NASB "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. [14] "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. Colossians 3:1 NASB Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Revelation 21:22 NASB I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. // Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent. // >>> This is impossible for you to adhere to. The Father was in Heaven as a completely distinct person and he was in Jesus? You believe the Father is Jesus…so no this is impossible and heretical. // Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16. // >>> Wrong, more heresy: 1. Isaiah is not confusing Jesus the Messiah with the first person of the Trinity. Isaiah isn’t teaching us that God the Son, the second person of the Trinity, is the same person as God the Father. (The early church denounced this idea as the heresy of modalism.) It’s unlikely Isaiah has the Trinity in mind at all when he says the Messiah will be called Everlasting Father. It’s not the Messiah’s role within the Godhead, but the Messiah’s character toward us that Isaiah has in mind. Concerning the language of “Everlasting Father,” Sam Storms calls it “a descriptive analogy pointing to Christ’s character . . . he is fatherly, father-like, in his treatment of us.” 2. Isaiah is highlighting the divine nature of the Messiah. More than any other author, Isaiah loves to speak of eternity. He speaks of God as “the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is holy” (Isa. 57:15). And here in Isaiah 9:6 he uses the same type of language to refer to the Messiah. He’s the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end—the one who is and who was and who is to come—the Almighty (Rev. 1:8). Isaiah is speaking of a child who will be born some 700 years in the future—yet he makes clear that this child is the author of eternity, the “father of time”! This truly boggles the mind. 3. Jesus the Messiah is the only one who can reveal God’s fatherly character to us, for he is one in nature and essence with the Father. Isaiah couldn’t have fully seen the light of glory that shone from Jesus when he dwelt among us. But from Jesus’s own lips, words such as these were spoken: I am the Father are one . . . know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father. (John 10:30, 38) Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? (John 14:9–10a) If you want to know what God is like, look at Jesus. Jesus is the perfect image of God, and the exact representation of his being. Jesus alone makes the Father known. Indeed, no one can come to the Father except through him (John 14:6). Perfect Father Herman Bavinck observed that Jesus “takes away our guilt and again opens the way to [God’s] fatherly heart.” Everything you’ve ever dreamed a father could be—everything you’ve ever wanted from your relationship with your earthly father—Jesus is and will be for you. Your Messiah will forever be perfectly father-like in the way he shepherds and leads you. In Jesus, you have a perfect father forever. Sadly, the word father doesn’t always bring to mind someone who shepherds, affirms, and stays close. Instead, it connotes adjectives like distant, aloof, passive, absent, unreliable, selfish, uncaring, and cruel. Even among Christian families, far too many children experience emotional indifference and selfcentered neglect from their dads. Not so from Jesus. Jesus, your Everlasting Father, came down at Christmas into a broken and sinful world to fill our hearts with heaven’s love, and to teach us how to love one another. He came to make sons and daughters out of his enemies. This is the Father’s gift to us at Christmas. Our Everlasting Father How comforting it is to read, “His name shall be called . . . Everlasting Father” (Isa. 9:6). Once we become a child of Christ’s, we are his and he is ours forever. Forever. There will be no goodbyes with him. Nothing in all creation will be able to separate us from his love. Not even death itself—indeed, it will only draw us nearer. “There is no unfathering Christ, and there is no unchilding us,” Charles Spurgeon once said. “He is everlastingly a father to those who trust in him.” Praise God for our eternal security in Christ, our Everlasting Father. David Sunday is the senior pastor of New Covenant Bible Church in St. Charles, Illinois. // When God said, “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10. // >>> Yes, he was speaking with the son and the Spirit: Genesis 1:2 NASB The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. John 1:30 NASB This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.' John 17:5 NASB Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Philippians 2:6-7 NASB who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, [7] but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. Revelation 22:13 NASB I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." "Let Us [plural pronoun] make [plural of asah] man in Our [plural pronoun] image [singular], according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness [singular]" The evidence is that the "US" and "OUR" were included as plural pronouns because it is necessary when referring to Elohim which is plural. God is speaking here (but it is the Trinity) speaking. Even the ECF believed this. 74 AD Epistle of Barnabas: "For the Scripture says concerning us, while He speaks to the Son, "Let Us make man after Our image, and after Our likeness" (Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter VI.—The Sufferings of Christ, and the New Covenant, Were Announced by the Prophets.) 150 AD Justin Martyr: Speaking of Jewish theologians Justin calls the Jewish teaching that God spoke to angels a hersey: "In saying, therefore, 'as one of us, '[Moses] has declared that [there is a certain] number of persons associated with one another, and that they are at least two. For I would not say that the dogma of that heresy which is said to be among you (The Jews had their own heresies which supplied many things to the Christian heresies) is true, or that the teachers of it can prove that [God] spoke to angels, or that the human frame was the workmanship of angels. But this Offspring, which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures." (Dialogue of Justin Martyr, with Trypho, a Jew: Chapter LXII.—The Words "Let Us Make Man") 180 AD Irenaeus "It was not angels, therefore, who made us, nor who formed us, neither had angels power to make an image of God, nor any one else, except the Word of the Lord, nor any Power remotely distant from the Father of all things. For God did not stand in need of these [beings], in order to the accomplishing of what He had Himself determined with Himself beforehand should be done, as if He did not possess His own hands. For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, "Let Us make man after Our image and likeness; " [Gen. 1:26]" (Against Heresies 4:20:1). 200 AD Tertullian: "If the number of the Trinity also offends you, as if it were not connected in the simple Unity, I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and absolutely One and Singular, to speak in plural phrase, saying, "Let us make man in our own image, and after our own likeness; " whereas He ought to have said, "Let me make man in my own image, and after my own likeness," as being a unique and singular Being? In the following passage, however, "Behold the man is become as one of us," He is either deceiving or amusing us in speaking plurally, if He is One only and singular. Or was it to the angels that He spoke, as the Jews interpret the passage, because these also acknowledge not the Son? Or was it because He was at once the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, that He spoke to Himself in plural terms, making Himself plural on that very account? Nay, it was because He had already His Son close at His side, as a second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase, "Let us make; "and, "in our image; "and, "become as one of us." (Tertullian, Against Praxeas, Chapter XII. Other Quotations from Holy Scripture Adduced in Proof of the Plurality of Persons in the Godhead.) 200 AD Tertullian: Tertullian rejects the idea that God was speaking to Angels because our head is the creator, not a creature: "Since then he is the image of the Creator (for He, when looking on Christ His Word, who was to become man, said, "Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness"), how can I possibly have another head but Him whose image I am? For if I am the image of the Creator there is no room in me for another head" (Tertullian, Book V, Elucidations, Chapter VIII.—Man the Image of the Creator, and Christ the Head of the Man.) 200 AD Tertullian: "In the first place, because all things were made by the Word of God, and without Him was nothing made. Now the flesh, too, had its existence from the Word of God, because of the principle, that here should be nothing without that Word. "Let us make man," said He, before He created him, and added, "with our hand," for the sake of his pre-eminence, that so he might not be compared with the rest of creation." (Tertullian: On the Resurrection of the Flesh, Elucidations, Chapter V.—Some Considerations in Reply Eulogistic of the Flesh. It Was Created by God.) 250 AD Ignatius "For Moses, the faithful servant of God, when he said, "The Lord thy God is one Lord," and thus proclaimed that there was only one God, did yet forthwith confess also our Lord [Jesus] when he said, "The Lord [Jesus] rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah fire and brimstone from the Lord."And again [he confessed a second time our Lord Jesus by saying], "And God said, Let Us make man after our image: and so God made man, after the image of God made He him."" (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Antiochians, Chapter II.—The True Doctrine Respecting God and Christ.) Origen: "it was to Him that God said regarding the creation of man, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness." (Origen Against Celsus, Book V, Chapter XXXVII) Novatian: "For who does not acknowledge that the person of the Son is second after the Father, when he reads that it was said by the Father, consequently to the Son, "Let us make man in our image and our likeness; " and that after this it was related, "And God made man, in the image of God made He him? "Or when he holds in his hands: "The Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah fire and brimstone from the Lord from heaven? " (A Treatise of Novatian Concerning the Trinity, Chapter XXVI. Argument.—Moreover, Against the Sabellians He Proves that the Father is One, the Son Another.) Constitutions of the Holy Apostles: "the divine Scripture testifies that God said to Christ, His only-begotten, "Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness. And God made man: after the image of God made He him; male and female made He them."(Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book V., VII) REF: http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-texts-genesis1-26.htm // How many of God’s qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9. // >>> In his humanity or divinity? Jesus didn't have exhaustive knowledge in his humanity there were things veiled from him. Mark 13:32 NASB But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. // How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9. // >>> Who revealed the Father but is not the Father: Psalm 110:1 NASB The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." // Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8 // >>> Jesus is not saying he is God the Father here at all: Revelation 1:8 NASB "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." “the Almighty; as he appears to be, by creating all things but of nothing; by upholding all creatures in their beings; by the miracles he wrought on earth; by the resurrection of himself from the dead; by obtaining eternal redemption for his people; and by his having the care and government of them upon him, whom he keeps, upholds, bears, and carries to the end, through all their infirmities, afflictions, temptations, and trials” // Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father. // >>> Because the bible says. // Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18 // >>> He is the first and last isnt referring to his position in the God head this is a strawman. // How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2. // >>> And? Revelation 4:2 NASB Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and One sitting on the throne. Is Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father? Will Jesus not reign from his own throne? Revelation 3:21 NASB He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Stephen saw the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God: Acts 7:55-56 NASB But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; [56] and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." // If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate. // >>> Because Jesus is God? That's what we believe? SMH. // Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10 // >>> Yup and Jesus claimed to be God. Not a refutation to the Trinitarian position. // Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19. // >>> SMH, there is only one God, that's not our position we believe in one God. // Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14. // >>> Yes, and he revealed the Father again a trinitarian belief. Ignore John 1:18 though and ignore the Theos and Kurios to denote God the Father and Jesus as Lord. // For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14. // >>> Amen, and Jesus is God and is not the Father again no argument. // Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. 1 Timothy 3:16 // >>> We believe this. // Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13. // >>> No, that's not what the passage says: John 3:13 NASB No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. It says that Jesus is the only one who can acscended into heaven and the Jesus is the one who descended from heaven. // Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5. // • Have you even studied the word Lord? (Strong's #2962 — Noun Masculine — kurios — koo'-ree-os ) properly an adjective, signifying "having power" (kuros) or "authority," is used as a noun, variously translated in the NT, "'Lord,' 'master,' 'Master,' 'owner,' 'Sir,' a title of wide significance, occurring in each book of the NT save Titus and the Epistles of John. It is used (a) of an owner, as in Luke 19:33 , cp. Matthew 20:8; Acts 16:16; Galatians 4:1; or of one who has the disposal of anything, as the Sabbath, Matthew 12:8; (b) of a master, i.e., one to whom service is due on any ground, Matthew 6:24; 24:50; Ephesians 6:5; (c) of an Emperor or King, Acts 25:26; Revelation 17:14; (d) of idols, ironically, 1 Corinthians 8:5 , cp. Isaiah 26:13; (e) as a title of respect addressed to a father, Matthew 21:30 , a husband, 1 Peter 3:6 , a master, Matthew 13:27; Luke 13:8 , a ruler, Matthew 27:63 , an angel, Acts 10:4; Revelation 7:14; (f) as a title of courtesy addressed to a stranger, John 12:21; 20:15; Acts 16:30; from the outset of His ministry this was a common form of address to the Lord Jesus, alike by the people, Matthew 8:2; John 4:11 , and by His disciples, Matthew 8:25; Luke 5:8; John 6:68; (g) kurios is the Sept. and NT representative of Heb. Jehovah ('Lord' in Eng. versions), see Matthew 4:7; James 5:11 , e.g., of adon, Lord, Matthew 22:44 , and of Adonay, Lord, Matthew 1:22; it also occurs for Elohim, God, 1 Peter 1:25 . "Thus the usage of the word in the NT follows two main lines: one-- a-f, customary and general, the other, g, peculiar to the Jews, and drawn from the Greek translation of the OT. "Christ Himself assumed the title, Matthew 7:21,22; 9:38; 22:41-45; Mark 5:19 (cp. Psalms 66:16; the parallel passage, Luke 8:39 , has 'God'); Luke 19:31; John 13:13 , apparently intending it in the higher senses of its current use, and at the same time suggesting its OT associations. "His purpose did not become clear to the disciples until after His resurrection, and the revelation of His Deity consequent thereon. Thomas, when he realized the significance of the presence of a mortal wound in the body of a living man, immediately joined with it the absolute title of Deity, saying, 'My Lord and my God,' John 20:28 . Thereafter, except in Acts 10:4; Revelation 7:14 , there is no record that kurios was ever again used by believers in addressing any save God and the Lord Jesus; cp. Acts 2:47 with Acts 4:29,30 . "How soon and how completely the lower meaning had been superseded is seen in Peter's declaration in his first sermon after the resurrection, 'God hath made Him, Lord,' Acts 2:36 , and that in the house of Cornelius, 'He is Lord of all,' Acts 10:36; cp. Deuteronomy 10:14; Matthew 11:25; Acts 17:24 . In his writings the implications of his early teaching are confirmed and developed. Thus Psalms 34:8 , 'O taste and see that Jehovah is good,' is applied to the Lord Jesus, 1 Peter 2:3 , and 'Jehovah of Hosts, Him shall ye sanctify,' Isaiah 8:13 , becomes 'sanctify in your hearts Christ as Lord,' 1 Peter 3:15 . "So also James who uses kurios alike of God, James 1:7 (cp. James 1:5 ); 3:9; 4:15; 5:4,10,11 , and of the Lord Jesus, James 1:1 (where the possibility that kai is intended epexegetically, i.e. = even, cp. 1 Thessalonians 3:11 , should not be overlooked); James 2:1 (lit., 'our Lord Jesus Christ of glory,' cp. Psalms 24:7; 29:3; Acts 7:2; 1 Corinthians 2:8 ); 5:7,8 , while the language of James 4:10; 5:15 , is equally applicable to either. "Jude, Jude 1:4 , speaks of 'our only--Lord, Jesus Christ,' and immediately, Jude 1:5 , uses 'Lord' of God (see the remarkable marg. here), as he does later, Jude 1:9,14 . "Paul ordinarily uses kurios of the Lord Jesus, 1 Corinthians 1:3 , e.g., but also on occasion, of God, in quotations from the OT, 1 Corinthians 3:20 , e.g., and in his own words, 1 Corinthians 3:5 , cp. 1 Corinthians 3:10 . It is equally appropriate to either in 1 Corinthians 7:25; 2 Corinthians 3:16; 8:21; 1 Thessalonians 4:6 , and if 1 Corinthians 11:32 is to be interpreted by 1 Corinthians 10:21,22 , the Lord Jesus is intended, but if by Hebrews 12:5-9 , then kurios here also = God. 1 Timothy 6:15,16 is probably to be understood of the Lord Jesus, cp. Revelation 17:14 . "Though John does not use 'Lord' in his Epistles, and though, like the other Evangelists, he ordinarily uses the personal Name in his narrative, yet he occasionally speaks of Him as 'the Lord,' John 4:1; 6:23; 11:2; 20:20; 21:12 . "The full significance of this association of Jesus with God under the one appellation, 'Lord,' is seen when it is remembered that these men belonged to the only monotheistic race in the world. To associate with the Creator one known to be a creature, however exalted, though possible to Pagan philosophers, was quite impossible to a Jew. "It is not recorded that in the days of His flesh any of His disciples either addressed the Lord, or spoke of Him, by His personal Name. Where Paul has occasion to refer to the facts of the Gospel history he speaks of what the Lord Jesus said, Acts 20:35 , and did, 1 Corinthians 11:23 , and suffered, 1 Thessalonians 2:15; 5:9,10 . It is our Lord Jesus who is coming, 1 Thessalonians 2:19 , etc. In prayer also the title is given, 1 Thessalonians 3:11; Ephesians 1:3; the sinner is invited to believe on the Lord Jesus, Acts 16:31; 20:21 , and the saint to look to the Lord Jesus for deliverance, Romans 7:24,25 , and in the few exceptional cases in which the personal Name stands alone a reason is always discernible in the immediate context. "The title 'Lord,' as given to the Savior, in its full significance rests upon the resurrection, Acts 2:36; Romans 10:9; 14:9 , and is realized only in the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:3 ." * [* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, p. 25.] // Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11. // >>> Again that is our belief. // Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. I kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1. // >>> Again that is our belief. // How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh. // >>> No because Jesus is God...your source doesn't understand the Trinity. Ephesians 1:3 NASB Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, // Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8. // >>> Wrong, God the Father gives the son Glory: Daniel 7:13-14 NASB "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. [14] "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. // Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10. // >>> Agreed there is but one God. // What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8. // >>> Jesus doesn't know the day nor hour how is that possible if he is the Father? // What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2. // >>> Agreed, and sin and change his mind. // How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4. // >>> Agreed we believe this. // How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9 // >>> Wrong: Revelation 19:11-12 NASB And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. [12] His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. // Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16. // >>> Yup, not a refutation. // Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8 // >>> Jesus is God not a refutation. // Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16. // >>> We believe Jesus is God. // Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7. // >>> Jesus is God, therefore he can forgive sins as well as the Father. Hence why they claimed blasphemy. // Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior // >>> Trinitarians believe this. // Is Jesus the true God? Yes. 1 John 5:20. // >>> Jesus is God. Trinitarians believe this. One God three persons. // If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ?Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, 2 Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; 1 Corinthians 3:16. // >>> Wrong, the Father is not the Spirit, which is why you have a distinction in numerous places between them. Luke 10:21-22 NASB At that very time He rejoiced greatly in the Holy Spirit, and said, "I praise You, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. [22] All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Luke 11:13 NASB If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?" John 14:26 NASB But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. John 15:26-27 NASB "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, [27] and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning. Acts 2:33 NASB Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. Ephesians 2:18 NASB for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 1 Peter 1:2 NASB according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. // When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? “I am Jesus.” Acts 9:5 // >>> We believe this. // When Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59. // >>> We believe Jesus is God. // Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28. // >>> We believe Jesus is God. // How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, “Beside me there is no Savior?” Because “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.” 2 Corinthians 5:19. // >>> Because Jesus is God which we affirm. // Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23. // >>> We believe this. // Did Jesus ever say, “I and my Father are one?” Yes. John 10:30. // >>> We believe Jesus is one in purpose, is not the same person as the Father. You don't know what oneness actually means here. John 6:38 NASB For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. John 8:28 NASB So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. // Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. // >>> The bible never makes this claim nor do we. So that's a null statement. // The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11. // >>> Jesus is the Son of God, The Father is God Almighty a distinct person in the trinity. // Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25. // >>> We believe this. // Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13. // >>> It doesn't have to, within the Godhead exists three distinct persons with three centers of consciousnesses. // Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present–Jesus Christ the Lord. // >>> Omnipresence is impossible to read into the text. You have simultaneous madness in your interpretation. Matthew 3:16-17 NASB After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, [17] and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." 1) The Spirit of God descends this is not Jesus descending in his omnipresence he is located in a single location in his humanity. Jesus is not split in his humanity with his omnipresence... 2) the Father in heaven says as the Spirit js descending “...this is my beloved son...” how would anyone read that Jesus is saying in heaven this is my beloved son about himself as the Father. I mean its a mess. Jesus literally says that he is pleased with himself in your position... // Then what were the other two of whom Trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17. What did the voice say at Jesus’ baptism? “Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate // >>> What is this? He literally didn't say anything here how do you not see this? “...Jesus was the one God incarnate...” this doesnt answer the question of who was speaking from heaven at all...Jesus is the beloved son OF THE FATHER... // Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; 1 John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body. // >>> Jesus is God we believe that. // The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back–our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13. // >>> Jesus is the person in reference in Rev 19, Zec 14, 1 Thess 4:16, Titus 2:13... Jesus is God. We affirm that only Jesus is coming back. Cults/Counterfeits — Oneness Pentecostals (Ancient of Days) We know that the Son of Man in Daniel 7 is Jesus (There is no disputing that), Jesus clearly identifies himself as that Son of Man in Mark 14:62! Mark 14:62 NASB And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see the SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and coming WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." The question is “who” is the Ancient of Days that Jesus (Son of Man) comes before...and who gives Jesus glory, throne, dominion, etc...If it were Jesus on the throne we wouldn't use “Ancient of Days” to describe him... Daniel in his vision saw 2 people... In Rabbinical Literature: This name of God, used only in Dan. vii. 9, 13, 22, in which He is described as having "the hair of his head [white] like pure wool," denotes the One who is from of old; that is, old compared with all created things, that are of yesterday. As stated by Pseudo-Saadia and other Jewish commentators, God is often depicted by the rabbis as the venerable sage (Zaen) invested with judicial authority, whose sternness is tempered by mildness of judgment. To the devotees of mystic lore, within whose circle the Book of Daniel and the entire apocalyptic literature originated, the name naturally suggested itself as an attribute of majesty combined with tenderness, since they regarded the title "Zaen" (the aged one) to mean the one invested with the highest dignity. Accordingly "Ancient of Days" remained with these a favorite name of God (Pes.119a, B. B. 91b). Website Reference: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1490-ancientof- days So, we now have a problem we both distinguish that God is one (yet in essence we have Jesus, here and someone else)...Who is the Ancient of Days. The Jewish literature tells us that they believe this to be God...(As seen above)...eveb Easton’s Dictionary approves of this: Ancient of Days - (Easton's Bible Dictionary) An expression applied to Jehovah three times in the vision of Daniel (7:9, 13, 22) in the sense of eternal. In contrast with all earthly kings, his days are past reckoning. Logically we have two persons here because one is acting and giving the other is accepting and receiving. There isn't a manifestation of Jesus in two places this would again be impossible and the language nowhere implies that the Son of Man is the Ancient of Days. Therefore (manifestation, omnipresence) cannot account for oneness doctrine. Daniel must be telling us that these are two persons in heaven...Only God has glory, a kingdom, dominion...so the logical and biblical understanding of the passage is that Jesus the Son of Man receives a Kingdom from the Ancient of Days [The Father]...Which is why it is Jesus who is seated at the Right Hand of the Father and why David says in Psalm 110:1 Psalm 110:1 NASB The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." One God and we can see from this passage alone two distinct persons not differing manifestations or omnipresence. Cults/Counterfeits — Oneness Pentecostals (ECF) “Therefore neither would the Lord, nor the Holy Spirit, nor the apostles, have ever named as God, definitely and absolutely, him who was not God, unless he were truly God; nor would they have named any one in his own person Lord, except God the Father ruling over all, and His Son who has received dominion from His Father over all creation, as this passage has it: ‘The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit Thou at my right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.’ Here the [Scripture] represents to us the Father addressing the Son; He who gave Him the inheritance of the heathen, and subjected to Him all His enemies. Since, therefore, the Father is truly Lord, and the Son truly Lord, the Holy Spirit has fitly designated them by the title of Lord.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.6.1. ANF, I:418. “Reverting to the Scriptures, I shall endeavor to persuade you, that He who is said to have appeared to Abraham, and to Jacob, and to Moses, and who is called God, is distinct from Him who made all things,—numerically, I mean, not in will. For I affirm that He has never at any time done anything which He who made the world — above whom there is no other God— has not wished Him both to do and to engage Himself with.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 56. ANF, I:223–24. “We can indisputably learn that [God] conversed with someone who was numerically distinct from Himself and also a rational Being.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 62. ANF, I:228. “the Father planning everything well and giving His commands, the Son carrying these into execution and performing the work of creating, and the Spirit nourishing and increasing [what is made].” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4.38.3. ANF, I:521–22. “was God revealed; for God the Father is shown forth through all these [operations], the Spirit indeed working, and the Son ministering, while the Father was approving, and man’s salvation was being accomplished.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4.20.6. ANF, I:489. “Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are one essence, not one Person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are One,’ in respect of unity of substance, not singularity of number.” Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 25. ANF, III:621. “We, however, as we indeed always have done and more especially since we have been better instructed by the Paraclete, who leads men indeed into all truth, believe that there is one only God, but under the following dispensation, or [economy], as it is called, that this one only God has also a Son, His Word, who proceeded from Himself, by whom all things were made, and without whom nothing was made. Him we believe to have been sent by the Father into the Virgin, and to have been born of her – being both Man and God, the Son of Man and the Son of God, and to have been called by the name of Jesus Christ; we believe Him to have suffered, died, and been buried, according to the Scriptures, and, after He had been raised again by the Father and taken back to heaven, to be sitting at the right hand of the Father, and that He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost. That this rule of faith has come down to us from the beginning of the gospel.” Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 2. ANF, III:598. “The Father is God, and the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God, and each is God...when Christ should come He might be both acknowledged as God and designated as Lord, being the Son of Him who is both God and Lord...As soon, however, as Christ came, and was recognized by us as the very Being who had from the beginning caused plurality (in the Divine Economy), being the second from the Father, and with the Spirit the third, and Himself declaring and manifesting the Father more fully (than He had ever been before), the title of Him who is God and Lord was at once restored to the Unity (of the Divine Nature).” Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 13. ANF, III:608. Cults/Counterfeits — Oneness Pentecostals (Jesus/Father) Daniel 7:13-14 NASB "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. [14] "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. Matthew 7:21 NASB Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Matthew 24:36 NASB "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Luke 10:22 NASB All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." John 1:1-2,14-18 NASB In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] He was in the beginning with God. [14] And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. [15] John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'" [16] For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. [17] For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. [18] No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 5:20-23 NASB For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. [21] For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. [22] For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, [23] so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. John 6:27 NASB Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal." John 6:40 NASB For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." John 8:28 NASB So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. John 17:1-5 NASB Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, [2] even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. [3] This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. [4] I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. [5] Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Hebrews 1:5-7 NASB For to which of the angels did He ever say, "You ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? [6] And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "And LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM." [7] And of the angels He says, "Who MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE." 2 Peter 1:17-18 NASB For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"- [18] and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. 1 John 2:22-23 NASB Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. [23] Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 1 John 4:14 NASB We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 2 John 1:3 NASB Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. 2 John 1:9 NASB Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
